Music Talk Board
Music theory assistance - Printable Version

+- Music Talk Board (https://www.musictalkboard.com)
+-- Forum: Instrument Talk (https://www.musictalkboard.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Forum: Other (https://www.musictalkboard.com/forum-21.html)
+--- Thread: Music theory assistance (/thread-197.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6


RE: Music theory assistance - Danjo - 04-12-2013

I guess I think in terms of an expanded pentatonic scale (like all the pentatonic "modes" strung together along the neck) when I go to solo, but when I play rhythm parts I honestly just don't think about anything except the way it sounds. Like I'll play a note and then think "this needs some more notes" so I'll mess around until I find the notes I'm hearing in my head, and then I'll think "I want to go up", and I'll go up and rearrange the chord as needed. Or a lot of times recently I'll just change individual notes within a chord, and kinda go back or something, whatever suits the rhythm. Even when I go to write other parts, like a chorus to fit a verse or something, I'll just strike a random chord based on whatever I feel like it should be. I've gotten pretty good at just feeling out what I'm hearing in my head.

I think modes are dumb because they just don't sound as good. Also things sound much better (to my ear) if you start with a pentatonic and then add a few extra scale notes. It just sounds boring if you go straight through a major or minor scale.

I definitely don't think learning theory would hurt me, but I don't really feel like it would help me that much either. Well, more theory anyway. I already know more than your average bear. Except that most of my knowledge is actually just music notation and terminology, which is that helpful.


RE: Music theory assistance - Adam - 04-12-2013

Learning theory can give you many ideas and creativity, for example, ever since i learned how to spice up riffs leads and melodies with chromatics properly i've been using it all the time. They add a lot of personality and depth to riffs leads and melodies.

And it's something you need to learn mostly by yourself (i haven't found any good lessons for it on the internet). So it's also good for teaching yourself how to analyse music, which is important to know

There are so many things out there people don't even think about that is you put a little attention to it you can do amazing things.


RE: Music theory assistance - JCizzle - 04-12-2013

(04-12-2013, 05:28 AM)Danjo Wrote: I think modes are dumb because they just don't sound as good. Also things sound much better (to my ear) if you start with a pentatonic and then add a few extra scale notes. It just sounds boring if you go straight through a major or minor scale.
Modes are primarily theoretical, I would say. All scales (barring Locrian, obviously, pfft.) can sound good if used in the right context. The Allman Brothers extensively used Dorian, many artists from Jimi Hendrix to Steve Vai use Mixolydian and Lydian extensively, neoclassical players often use (dominant) Phrygian, and almost everybody uses Aeolian in a primarily Ionian context (relative scales).

(04-12-2013, 05:28 AM)Danjo Wrote: I definitely don't think learning theory would hurt me, but I don't really feel like it would help me that much either. Well, more theory anyway. I already know more than your average bear. Except that most of my knowledge is actually just music notation and terminology, which is that helpful.
Yeah, pretty much anybody with an IQ higher than their own age will tell you that theory can and will only help you when it comes to understanding music, and in some cases can even help you creatively.

However, most people, myself included, will put a lot more emphasis on ear than on comprehension.


RE: Music theory assistance - crazysam23 - 04-12-2013

(04-12-2013, 02:22 PM)JoelCarli Wrote: Modes are primarily theoretical, I would say. All scales (barring Locrian, obviously, pfft.) can sound good if used in the right context. The Allman Brothers extensively used Dorian, many artists from Jimi Hendrix to Steve Vai use Mixolydian and Lydian extensively, neoclassical players often use (dominant) Phrygian, and almost everybody uses Aeolian in a primarily Ionian context (relative scales).
The thing about modes is that, people often fail to realize that there's 2 "realms" of music. There's the modal realm, and the tonal. Now it's perfectly acceptable to use the modes as "scales" in the tonal realm (as most of the musicians you listed above did). The only thing is, you'd also have to use accidentals and such at times to make them sound good (same as you would with any scale, frankly). I prefer to not think in terms of scales when I create melody though. If it helps some people and doesn't limit their creativity, fine. I just think it limits most people's creativity to think in terms of scales, especially when they're beginners.



Note that many Jazz musicians, or Jazz-influenced musicians, use modes in the tonal realm. A lot of the pure Jazz guys insist that's using modes "modally"; it's not. What they're doing is using modes in the tonal realm. Some of them even design 7 chord progressions based off of specific modes [much as we do with the major and minor keys]. Though, to use modes in a purely modal manner, you wouldn't have chord progressions, as that implies harmony and modes are solely concerned with melody.

(04-12-2013, 05:28 AM)Danjo Wrote: I definitely don't think learning theory would hurt me, but I don't really feel like it would help me that much either. Well, more theory anyway. I already know more than your average bear. Except that most of my knowledge is actually just music notation and terminology, which is that helpful.
Think about it this way. Theory gives you tools. You may not need all the tools. For instance, using an example we're all familiar with...you wouldn't use a screwdriver to hammer a nail into a board, right? But, if you need to drive a screw into that board, a screwdriver is the obvious choice. What theory does is give you options (tools), and you have to decide whether you want to use those tools based on what you're trying to compose/play.


RE: Music theory assistance - Adam - 04-12-2013

I fully agree Sam, but i'd just like to say that the modal 'realm' can be of good use in some cases. Just like you don't have to play all the time in the same key or time signature you don't always have to play 'modaly'.
Like any other thing in music, you could use it to spice up stuff rather than just use it constantly.

Though the only modal tool i actually use is pitch axis theory, fs you're a fan of Satriani you should check it out as well


RE: Music theory assistance - JCizzle - 04-12-2013

I tend not to think in scales either (most of the time). I much more value ear and heart over brain.


RE: Music theory assistance - crazysam23 - 04-12-2013

(04-12-2013, 08:51 PM)Adam Wrote: But i'd just like to say that the modal 'realm' can be of good use in some cases. Just like you don't have to play all the time in the same key or time signature you don't always have to play 'modally'.
Like any other thing in music, you could use it to spice up stuff rather than just use it constantly.
I don't dispute any of that. I just like to make the distinction between "modal" and "tonal" is all. (A lot of young Metal guitarists seem to think modes=scales, which bugs the crap out of me, lol.)

Quote:Though the only modal tool i actually use is pitch axis theory, fs you're a fan of Satriani you should check it out as well
I've heard of that. In fact, I have a book that mentions it. (It's basically a book that covers the style basics of several guitarists, including Satriani.) I've never actually studied Pitch Axis Theory though. Any links that could set me on the right path? lol

(04-12-2013, 09:00 PM)JoelCarli Wrote: I tend not to think in scales either (most of the time). I much more value ear and heart over brain.
Big GrinBig GrinBig Grin


RE: Music theory assistance - Adam - 04-12-2013

Well i've read on it on the intrewebz, google it. Or search for Satch's clinics/lessons

But here's the most basic thing about it if it helps




RE: Music theory assistance - JCizzle - 04-12-2013

Guthrie is the man. But yeah, it's as simple as keeping the same root note for different chords. In other words, as long as I keep E as a root, I can play any other notes and that would be pitch axis. For Satriani, the tapping part in Satch Boogie constitutes as pitch axis.


RE: Music theory assistance - Adam - 04-12-2013

Well there's a lot more to it, chord constructions, intervallic ideas, etc. That's just a rough explanation of the basics